December 11, 2017, 07:39:22 PM

Author Topic: Tragedy at Uva  (Read 266 times)

cubsfanbudman

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Tragedy at Uva
« on: August 12, 2017, 07:55:29 PM »
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/12/trump-responds-charlotteville-protests-white-nationalists/23075795/
cant believe this happened at one of the most well respected colleges in the world.
all this because idiots think removing a statue will eliminate history. our general assembly should pass a law making it illegal to remove monuments unless the citizens vote for them to be removed.
"the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
albert einstein

Solon

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 04:56:27 AM »
There are no excuses for people who shout Nazi slogans and give the Nazi salute. They have deliberately chosen the symbols of racial extermination. They should be condemned in the strongest terms. The death of a woman plus several injuries from a racist car attack is what you get with this kind of hatred and bigotry. In addition, two state troopers died from a helicopter crash while monitoring the event.

Quote
In the middle of Emancipation Park in Charlottesville on Saturday, two young women, one white and one black, took each other's hands and held them tightly, and with their other hands they gripped the steel barrier in front of them.

A few feet away, a young white man with a buzzed haircut and sunglasses leaned towards them over a facing barrier. "You'll be on the first f*****g boat home," he screamed at the black woman, before turning to the white woman. "And as for you, you're going straight to hell," he said. Then he gave a Nazi salute.

...For the third time in a few months, white nationalists had descended on the small, liberal city of Charlottesville in the old Confederate capital of Virginia, to protest against the planned removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E Lee.

This time they came under the banner of the so-called "alt-right", for a rally they called "Unite the Right". They were a motley crew of militia, racists, and neo-Nazis, and some who said they simply wanted to defend their Southern history.

They gathered early in the morning at Emancipation Park - formerly Lee Park - where the statue sits, some dressed in full tactical gear and openly carrying rifles. Others wore black shirts, helmets, and boots.

In a column they surged into the park, using sticks and their fists to shove aside anti-fascist counter-protesters. Then they blocked off the entrance with shields. Inside, David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, grinned and waved as the crowd, almost entirely white and male, cheered him on, chanting his name and putting their arms up in Nazi salutes.

..."The heat here is nothing compared to what you're going to get in the ovens," shouted Robert Ray, a writer for the white supremacist website Daily Stormer. "It's coming," he spat.


A reckoning in Charlottesville
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40914748

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...the rally quickly exploded into racial taunting, shoving and outright brawling, prompting the governor to declare a state of emergency and the National Guard to join the police in clearing the area.

Those skirmishes mostly resulted in cuts and bruises. But after the rally at a city park was dispersed, a car bearing Ohio license plates plowed into a crowd near the city’s downtown mall, killing a 32-year-old woman. Some 34 others were injured, at least 19 in the car crash, according to a spokeswoman for the University of Virginia Medical Center.

Col. Martin Kumer, the superintendent of the Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail, confirmed Saturday evening that an Ohio man, James Alex Fields Jr., 20, of Maumee, had been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and failing to stop at the scene of a crash that resulted in a death.
Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/us/charlottesville-protest-white-nationalist.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 05:15:47 AM by Solon »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
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cubsfanbudman

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 11:56:06 AM »
would think our president would at least act like he was pissed about it.
"the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
albert einstein

Solon

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 12:46:10 PM »
In Jennifer Rubin's Right Turn column in the Washington Post, we have a conservative Republican critique of Trump. As a result of Trump's failure to explicitly condemn the proponents of white racial superiority and extermination in yesterday's protest, she again calls for his removal. Previously, she has promoted Pence as the ideal replacement. His weak response to the violence in Charlottesville drew her condemnation as well. I believe that Pence is hiding in Trump's shadow after last week's NY Times article that he was preparing for a presidential run. He decided that it's not the time to separate himself from the president as he has over recognition of Russia's election interference and support for our Western allies. Politics, once again, trumps character.

Rubin's call for Republicans to endorse the removal of Confederate monuments is a recognition that their preservation has become the cause of white racist extremists. People who would separate the heroes of the Confederacy from racial politics have been swamped by contemporary events. There is, unfortunately, no longer any middle ground. I was trained as an historian and live much of my retirement in the past, so it is painful for me to face up to this fact. I may be a political liberal, but I have always admired Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and George Pickett. It is time for their images to be memorialized in the history books, not in concrete. They have become symbols of racial hatred and exploited for that purpose. They must be removed.

Quote
...politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, deplored the white nationalists and the mayhem they created, many of them telling the president he needed to denounce the hate-mongers. Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) and Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Cory Gardner (R-Colo.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) — who went a step further, calling for a Justice Department investigation of domestic terrorism — were among them. (Later Saturday evening, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that the FBI and U.S. attorney would be investigating.) President Trump and Vice President Pence did not take their advice. Instead, they hid behind ambiguity and moral equivalence.

...This is not the first time Trump has played footsie with white nationalists. During the campaign, he initially pleaded ignorance of David Duke’s racism in an interview with Jake Tapper. He played to white nationalists’ fears of illegal immigrants, demonized Mexicans, made racist accusations against a federal judge, falsely accused illegal immigrants of causing a crime wave, and refused to apologize for anti-Semitic imagery. Once in office, he hired alt-right darlings including Stephen K. Bannon (who bragged that he had made Breitbart a “platform for the alt-right”) and Sebastian Gorka. As president, he has channeled the white racists’ “blood and soil” concept of nationalism in his speeches and encouraged white, Christian, working-class Americans to think of themselves as victims and to see their religion as under attack — while he championed a Muslim travel ban. Pence on Saturday was no better, sending out a mealy-mouthed tweet: “Karen & I saddened by the loss of lives in Charlottesville. Thoughts & prayers w/ families of officers & young woman. Also w/ injured victims.”

Trump did not tell the white nationalists to go to Charlottesville or to commit violence. But his campaign and presidency have given white nationalists cover, oxygen and the dream of respectability. And now, when the moment calls for some semblance of presidential leadership and denunciation of racists, he cannot bring himself to criticize a group that is unarguably part of his base (not a majority, but among his strongest fans).

...If Republicans are now truly disgusted by the president they supported, they can condemn his embarrassing comments, support the FBI and Justice Department investigation, and urge that Confederate statues throughout the country be taken down. We’ve now erased the fictions that these monuments are about “Southern heritage.” No, they are giant concrete shrines to white nationalism.

...If the president doesn’t grasp this, the rest of the country should. It’s time to get rid of the statues and get rid of the alt-right heroes in the White House. As for Trump, the country cannot get rid of him soon enough.


Enough of the Confederate statues, the alt-right heroes and Trump’s moral idiocy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/08/12/enough-of-the-confederate-statues-the-alt-right-heroes-and-trumps-moral-idiocy/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-c%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.80608d9cc6b8
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

superman

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 01:15:57 PM »
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/12/trump-responds-charlotteville-protests-white-nationalists/23075795/
cant believe this happened at one of the most well respected colleges in the world.
all this because idiots think removing a statue will eliminate history. our general assembly should pass a law making it illegal to remove monuments unless the citizens vote for them to be removed.

First, I will say I do not agree with the Charlottesville protesters spout and stand for in yesterday's march/protest

Second, the issue of trying to re-write history by the progressives/liberals on Charlottesville City Council in voting to remove statues and renaming two parks  in the City because they bore the names of Confederate leaders was also wrong without the approval of the majority of residents of the city of Charlottesville. By that I mean putting the issue up for a public vote which they did not.

This same debate is currently going on in the city of Richmond and their Monument Avenue statues. Charlottesville is becoming more liberal by the day and that fact could be because of the influence put on City Council by the University of Virginia leadership.  I do not look for Richmond to remove their statues because Monument Avenue is a large tourist attraction for the city.

Students return to UVA this week so I hope that things will return to normal and that going forward the members of Charlottesville City Council will decide to consider the ramifications of future political decisions they decide to make without public input.

RealConservative

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »
Of course you would try to make a political issue about it. Thats as pathetic a move as the man in charge of the country refusing to call this what it was: terrorism and white supremacists.

This is a time to come together and banish the rise of the Nazis in this country. My older brother fought in the 1940's against the Nazis in Europe and dammit to hell if they are now comfortable to try and rise up again.

superman

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 06:37:23 PM »
Of course you would try to make a political issue about it. Thats as pathetic a move as the man in charge of the country refusing to call this what it was: terrorism and white supremacists.

This is a time to come together and banish the rise of the Nazis in this country. My older brother fought in the 1940's against the Nazis in Europe and dammit to hell if they are now comfortable to try and rise up again.


Simple question to ask:

If Charlottesville City Council does not vote in favor of removing Confederate statues and renaming two parks, would there have been any kind of protests or marches? the three members of city council who voted to move the statues and rename the parks without allowing the public to vote on the issue have themselves to blame for creating the situation in the first place.

cubsfanbudman

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 06:58:19 PM »
the problem in all of this is there should be more discretion on who they issue permits to.if they think that there is a good chance at violent confrintations,they should deny the permit unless the party requesting the permit is willing to play for extra police security.why in the heck were the streets notr blocked off from cars entering during the demonstration? somebody should lose their jobs over the lapses in judgement.
"the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
albert einstein

Steven

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 07:50:07 AM »
I do not support racism by anyone - but if no one had come to protest the klan and start a riot this would not a topic of discussion. The people who are attacking the white supremacists are the same people who supported BLM and the New Black Panther Party who were burning down cities when the police were ordered to stand down. Both sides have a right to their own opinions and both sides are wrong. Violence by either side should not be tolerated.

cubsfanbudman

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 08:41:07 AM »
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/13/steve-bannon-may-be-ousted-by-trump/23076322/
looks like trump,s nazi is on the way out. hiring a marine as chief of staff is the smartest things he has done.I agree with racism,no place for it in this world.i still think that whoever was in charge of security could have at least blocked off the street and required the event organizers to provide extra security
on their side.
"the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
albert einstein

Common Sense

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 08:48:52 AM »
The plans for the "unite the right" were in place before the town council voting to take down the monuments that they, and the citizens of Charlottesville deemed offensive. Don't like that? Vote new leadership into the county and Mayoral post and get them to govern the citizens that elected them and have them take it down.

And taking down some statute DID NOT WARRANT THIS TIME OF ACTION!

You should be ashamed of yourselfs to say the violence, the assault, the murder was anyone's fault other than the proud, uniformed, organized neo-nazis and white supremacist.

And the President has YET to make a stand against neo-nazis as terrorists, and stand against this growing movement becausef they are the ones who helped get him into office.

Stand up everyone. Be against this or be for it.
"It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." - POTUS #32

Solon

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 10:05:34 AM »
The voters elect representatives to make decisions for them. That's the system we have under the Constitution. When the City Council of Charlottesville voted to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee, they were performing their proper task. Suddenly, that's not legitimate for protofascists. No, representative government in Charlottesville must be replaced with a plebiscite. The "people" must decide. Of course, that is just rhetoric designed to undermine the system. Where have we see this before? The Fascists in Italy and the Nazis in Germany employed it in their grab for power in the 1920's and 30's. The Communists employed it in postwar Eastern Europe. Of course, by the time the plebiscite is held, the "people" are intimidated by the secret police and the voting is a farce. Is this really what you want? It is certainly what the neo-Nazis want.

Why were the streets not blocked to prevent the deadly car attack? Police assumed that this was a peaceful protest. But, the right wing extremists did not come in peace. They came to cause violence. Hitler's Brown Shirts are their model. The purpose of the rally is to create an opportunity to physically beat, intimidate, and subdue the opposition. They look upon debate and deliberation as a weak strategy. Bluster and bullying are the means to power. They mock law and order while claiming the desire to restore it. By creating chaos, they can demand the authority to restore peace. It is the peace of the "ovens" as I quoted one of the Nazis. They aim to use the Bill of Rights to take those rights away from others. Do not be deceived.

Witnessing this, I think we can begin to get some clue about how the Nazis were able to take power in Germany. People who defend and excuse the tactics used by the Nazis may disassociate themselves from the blatant racism and the harsh rhetoric of the ovens. After all, they just want to take back the country from the Jews and socialists...or blacks and Hispanics. They are really on our side. Unfortunately, these defenders have fallen into the trap of moral ambiguity. They are fellow travelers who undermine the Constitution while claiming to defend it.

The racial hatred spouted by the organizers of this right wing rally are easily denounced and condemned. They are evil. Likewise, we must have the moral clarity to oppose the tactics they employ. The danger of being co-opted is the most insidious threat of all.

Footnote:
The photos of the event show the right wing fascists with helmets, clubs, guns, and shields. They did not come prepared for peaceful protest. See for yourself.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-protests-unite-the-right.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=nytmm_FadingSlideShow_item&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 10:27:00 AM by Solon »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

cubsfanbudman

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Re: Tragedy at Uva
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2017, 08:19:40 PM »
Quote
      And taking down some statute DID NOT WARRANT THIS TIME OF ACTION! [/b]

if removing 1 statue saves 1 person,s life, take them all down no matter how stupid itlooks.
"the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
albert einstein