Author Topic: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real  (Read 1381 times)

Solon

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Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2017, 01:49:50 PM »
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    China has been a reluctant participant on North Korean sanctions in the past and has more often vetoed those it found too rigorous. The same was true this go round. The US wanted to shut down any banking relationship between N. Korea and the outside world, but China and Russia refused. Even so, China is taking steps that it agreed to in the latest Security Council sanctions.

    The Trump administration can take credit for what it has accomplished in this round. Whether they bring Kim to the negotiating table remains to be seen. That is the Chinese objective and the UN as a whole, but neither N. Korea nor the US seem anxious to sit down. There is no possible solution short of a war to resolve the issues between N. Korea and the US without negotiations.

    The Chinese fear a war on the Korean peninsula more than they fear a mass exodus of North Koreans to China. Their new sanctions reflect a serious effort to bring North Korea to the table.

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    China has told North Korean companies operating in its territory to close down as it implements United Nations sanctions against the reclusive state.
    The companies will be shut by early January. Joint Chinese and North Korean ventures will also be forced to close.
    China, Pyongyang's only major ally, has already banned textile trade and limited oil exports.
    China to shut down North Korean companies
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41431057
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Skinsguy

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #31 on: September 28, 2017, 03:39:12 PM »
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  • A good read:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/timeline-of-the-north-korean-nuclear-threat-w496701

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    China is only willing to try so hard. Although the Chinese are often dissatisfied with their troublesome ally, they are not eager to see North Korea badly destabilized. If North Korea collapses because of outside pressures, the most likely result is that it would merge with South Korea, much as East Germany merged with West Germany after the Berlin Wall came tumbling down in 1989. This would put a pro-American Korea right on the Chinese border: not a result the Chinese government is eager to bring about.

    Usually I don't like much from the Rolling Stone, but that was a good read. I do agree that while diplomacy is always the best, safest choice to make, I think we're past that point with North Korea. I actually feel having North and South integrate would be good for the US, because it would put pressure on China in terms of trade, which for us, would be a good thing.

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #32 on: September 30, 2017, 03:00:42 AM »
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  • The last attempt to reunify the Korean peninsula was called the Korean War. First the North invaded the South and was forced back by MacArthur's Inchon landing. Then MacArthur began a march to the Yalu River with the intention of seizing the North. That collapsed as a result of an onslaught by a massive force of Chinese "volunteers". The eventual result was an armistice with a territorial status quo ante. This is where we have been since 1953.

    The Chinese continue to prop up the North Koreans because they will not accept a US-sponsored reunification. We will not accept a Chinese-sponsored reunification. It has been proposed that the US give the Chinese a guarantee that they have carte blanche in the north if they choose to replace Kim. Perhaps that offer has occurred. The assassination of Kim's brother in an airport seems curiously timed. Primarily. the Chinese are concerned that they could have to deal with a failed state next door if they bring the regime down or it collapses on its own. The influx of refugees and the spill over of chaos from a succession crisis would pose serious problems which they prefer to avoid.   

    In a regime collapse, it is possible that there would be a massive migration south, rather than into China. It is likely the South Koreans would welcome this new population. It could have similar effects to the immigration of the highly skilled from East to West Germany that led to the creation of the Berlin Wall. The depopulation of the north would place its viability in serious jeopardy and become a permanent problem for China. Worse from a political perspective, it could create a de facto reunification of the populations that would pose a diplomatic nightmare for the US and China.

    The nuclear stand off is a dangerous situation, but it is still a relatively stable condition that all parties prefer to the unpredictability of war or regime collapse...as long as nobody does anything stupid. With leaders like Kim and Trump, what could go wrong?
    « Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 08:04:02 AM by Solon »
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
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    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #33 on: September 30, 2017, 11:53:34 AM »
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  • The possibility of a miscalculation is somewhat reduced with the revelation that the US and North Korea are in direct communication. While there is a vast gulf in understanding as shown by North Korean diplomats reaching out to various Republican politicians in an effort to understand Trump, having lines of contact open is vital.

    Quote
    The Trump administration acknowledged on Saturday for the first time that it is in direct communication with the government of North Korea over its missile and nuclear tests, opening a possible way forward beyond the escalating threats of a military confrontation from both sides.
    U.S. in Direct Communication With North Korea, Says Tillerson
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/world/asia/us-north-korea-tillerson.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #34 on: October 15, 2017, 01:47:07 PM »
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  • The latest Quinnipiac poll has an incredible result to report. Almost half of Republicans favor a preemptive strike against North Korea. Yes, 46%, a plurality, favor starting a nuclear war. It  would see the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in its initial stages, including many Americans. US soldiers and their families who currently reside in South Korea would be incinerated almost immediately. Dependents could be withdrawn prior to the attack, but that would be a signal of danger to come so Trump would feel compelled to sacrifice them for the "greater good". What followed would be entirely unpredictable. The Chinese are very sensitive to nuclear wars on their doorstep. Perhaps they would be drawn in. The US would be vulnerable at that point. The unpredictability of what would happen if a war were launched on the Korean Peninsula has deterred the US, China, Russia, and both Koreas since 1953. There is a reason for that.

    Perhaps, however, it is not Trump who is crazy, but his supporters. Despite Trump's threats, when someone looks into the abyss, they have a tendency to think twice before initiating the greatest crime, the most destructive single human act, in the history of the world.

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    There was a pretty striking finding in Thursday's Quinnipiac University poll: Fully 46 percent of Republicans — a plurality — said they would support a preemptive strike against North Korea.

    That's nearly half of President Trump's party that is ready for war — today — with Kim Jong Un, his nuclear weapons and all. (Forty-one percent said they opposed a preemptive strike.)

    It’s no surprise that Republicans are more hawkish on this than Democrats are; that’s generally the case on foreign policy. But basically nobody is talking about the prospect of a strike right now. Even when Trump talks about it, he’s responding to North Korea threatening the United States or its allies.

    Yet it also seems possible that Trump’s ramped-up rhetoric on this could be having an effect on his base.


    Almost half of Republicans want war with North Korea, a new poll says. Is it the Trump Effect?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/14/almost-half-of-republicans-want-war-with-north-korea-says-a-new-poll-is-it-the-trump-effect/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_fix-nkorea-930am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.edaa0d7b022c

    https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2492
    « Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:50:22 PM by Solon »
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #35 on: October 17, 2017, 12:18:10 PM »
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  • North Koreans believe they can not only survive, but "win", a nuclear war. This was the opinion expressed to Nicholas Kristof during his recent visit. That delusion would make it easier for Kim to launch an attack on the South, or Japan, or even US territory. You have to wonder, however, if that is any more delusional than the fact that 46% of the Republican party apparently believes the US should initiate the war with a preemptive attack on North Korea.

    One can only despair that people who have every opportunity to understand the realities of political, military, and economic forces are as ignorant as those who are denied the most basic access to information. 

    Quote
    North Korea’s deputy U.N. ambassador warned Monday that the situation on the Korean peninsula “has reached the touch-and-go point and a nuclear war may break out any moment.”

    Kim In Ryong told the U.N. General Assembly’s disarmament committee that North Korea is the only country in the world that has been subjected to “such an extreme and direct nuclear threat” from the United States since the 1970s — and said the country has the right to possess nuclear weapons in self-defense.

    ...U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Sunday that diplomatic efforts aimed at resolving the North Korean crisis “will continue until the first bomb drops.” His commitment to diplomacy came despite President Donald Trump’s tweets several weeks ago that his chief envoy was “wasting his time” trying to negotiate with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, whom he derisively referred to as “Little Rocket Man.”

    North Korea’s deputy U.N. ambassador called his country’s nuclear and missile arsenal “a precious strategic asset that cannot be reversed or bartered for anything.”

    “Unless the hostile policy and the nuclear threat of the U.S. is thoroughly eradicated, we will never put our nuclear weapons and ballistic rockets on the negotiating table under any circumstances,” Kim said.

    He told the disarmament committee that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea — North Korea’s official name — had hoped for a nuclear-free world.

    Instead, Kim said, all nuclear states are accelerating the modernization of their weapons and “reviving a nuclear arms race reminiscent of (the) Cold War era.” He noted that the nuclear weapon states, including the United States, boycotted negotiations for the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons that was approved in July by 122 countries at the United Nations.

    “The DPRK consistently supports the total elimination of nuclear weapons and the efforts for denuclearization of the entire world,” he said. But as long as the United States rejects the treaty and “constantly threatens and blackmails the DPRK with nuclear weapons ... the DPRK is not in position to accede to the treaty.”

    North Korea says ‘a nuclear war may break out any moment
    https://apnews.com/fe61b534c4cc49f6b940f8079a6af6d5/North-Korea-says-'a-nuclear-war-may-break-out-any-moment'?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top-stories
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #36 on: October 28, 2017, 04:31:40 PM »
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  • Defense Secretary Mattis joined in the war talk with a visit to the DMZ separating North and South Korea.

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    "North Korea has accelerated the threat that it poses to its neighbours and the world through its illegal and unnecessary missile and nuclear weapons programs," Mr Mattis said, AP news agency reported.

    He said North Korea engaged in "outlaw" behaviour and said US-South Korean security collaboration had taken on "new urgency".
    Washington could not accept a nuclear North Korea, he added, speaking alongside his South Korean counterpart Song Young-moo.

    Mr Mattis warned it would face a "massive military response" if it used nuclear weapons.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41787235

    The US will either accept that North Korea has nuclear weapons or there will be war. North Korea has nuclear weapons already. What it apparently lacks is a miniaturized weapon to place on top of an ICBM that will reach the US mainland. 

    The North Koreans have shown no sign they are willing to talk to the US since they recently refused to continue secret talks. The insults and tough talk does not seem to intimidate Kim Jong-un. The withdrawal from private talks is just N. Korea's way of displaying its rejection of Trump's insults and Mattis' threats, not that another strategy would lead to serious negotiations. The North Koreans regard nuclear weapons as a sine qua non for regime survival and no treat or threat will change that.
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #37 on: October 29, 2017, 03:53:40 AM »
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  • The latest Quinnipiac poll has an incredible result to report. Almost half of Republicans favor a preemptive strike against North Korea. Yes, 46%, a plurality, favor starting a nuclear war. It  would see the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in its initial stages, including many Americans.

    Almost half of Republicans want war with North Korea, a new poll says. Is it the Trump Effect?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/14/almost-half-of-republicans-want-war-with-north-korea-says-a-new-poll-is-it-the-trump-effect/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_fix-nkorea-930am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.edaa0d7b022c

    https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2492


    A new assessment of the probable casualties from a nuclear attack by North Korea vastly exceeds the horrific figure I cited in the previous post shown above. These numbers do not assess a US preemptive or retaliatory strike.

    Quote
    Pentagon officials have long warned about the human cost of a war in the Korean peninsula, but a new report details the different scenarios and related damage of a North Korean nuclear strike on its neighbors Japan and South Korea.

    Analysis published on the North Korea monitoring group 38 North, a project of the U.S.-Korea Institute at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies, calculates the amount of casualties that would result from a nuclear attack, taking into account North Korea’s estimated capabilities.

    ...According to the report, the number of casualties caused would depend on the detonation reliability of the North Korean missile warhead. “Multiple nuclear weapon detonations on both Seoul and Tokyo based on the current North Korea yield estimates could result in anywhere from 400,000 to 2 million deaths,” Zagurek wrote, adding, “With possible thermonuclear yields with the same number of weapons, the number of deaths could range between 1.3 and 3.8 million.”

    NORTH KOREA NUCLEAR MISSILES: HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL DIE IF KIM JONG-UN FIRES?
    http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-nuclear-strike-would-kill-millions-seoul-and-tokyo-report-678392


    Fox News claims a far more dramatic number will die if there is a nuclear exchange between the US and N. Korea

    8 million dead - what nuclear war with North Korea could look like
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/14/8-million-dead-what-nuclear-war-with-north-korea-could-look-like.html


    A new report to Congress (Oct. 27) predicts mass casualties in a war on the Korean peninsular even if no nuclear weapons are used. Upwards of 300,000 could die in the span of a few days.

    Quote
    Renewed conflict on the Korean peninsula could kill hundreds of thousands of people in the first few days alone even if no nuclear weapons are involved, according to a new report by the Congressional Research Service

    Given population densities on the peninsula, military conflict “could affect upwards of 25 million people on either side of the border, including at least 100,000 US citizens”, according to a 62-page assessment sent to US lawmakers on Friday.

    With the US saying all military options are on the table, the CRS report laid out in sharp detail the consequences of a conflict. North Korea can rely on hundreds of thousands of artillery rounds within striking distance of Seoul, making it difficult for even a pre-emptive strike to prevent mass casualties.

    War on Korean peninsula could kill 300,000 in days – even without nuclear weapons – says report by US Congress
    http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/2117408/war-korean-peninsula-could-kill-300000-days-even-without-nuclear

    My first question is this: How can 46% of Republicans want an attack on North Korea with these casualty projections? They have been duly informed. Fox News has made known its frightening estimate, so these idiots have no excuse for such a callous disregard for human life. Pro-life? What a sick joke.   

    My second question is this: To what extent is the 46% driving the administration's belligerence toward N. Korea, and how much is Trump's insulting tweets and war mongering creating the 46%?     
    « Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 04:05:13 AM by Solon »
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 02:51:43 PM »
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  • One of the few foreign policy initiatives for which the Trump administration deserves high marks is the imposition of UN sanctions on North Korea. The obstacle has always been China and Russia. Today, once again, the Security Council voted to up the level of coercion on the Kim regime. Behind the scenes, the US was able to negotiate with China to get their agreement.

    Quote
    The United Nations Security Council has voted to impose tougher sanctions on North Korea in response to its recent ballistic missile tests.

    The US-drafted resolution includes measures to drastically reduce the nation's petrol imports by up to 90%.

    It includes measures such as a ban on exports of North Korean goods, such as machinery and electrical equipment.

    All North Korean nationals working abroad will have to return home within 12 months under the proposals.

    North Korea: UN imposes fresh sanctions over missile tests
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42459670

    At the same time, Kori Schalke, a conservative Republican foreign policy expert who served in the Bush administration during the Iraq War, is concerned that the Trump administration is following the same build up to war with North Korea as she observed in 2003 with regard to Saddam Hussein.

    Writing in The Atlantic, Schake points out:

    Quote
    The lines of argument employed by the Bush Administration in 2003 and the Trump Administration in 2017 both rely on the same basic elements:

    1. The adversary’s actions are increasingly threatening;

    2. It would be irresponsible to continue the policy trajectory of prior administrations;

    3.The adversary leadership cannot be considered rational;

    4. Their intent is not merely regime survival but attacks on the U.S. and allies;

    5. International cooperation is inadequate to the threat; and

    6. Retaliation after a first strike from the enemy is insufficient—either to deter or to punish.

    And, as Mira Rapp-Hooper has emphasized, the Trump administration argues that the U.S. must act before North Korea attains even more dangerous capabilities. They are reprising the argument made by the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Cuban missile crisis

    It is possible that Chinese cooperation with recent Security Council resolutions is designed to forestall such a devastating event on its border.

    Schake points out that the most wildly successful US attack in which all missile and conventional threats were eliminated within three hours would still likely result in the death of 300,000 South Korean civilians and, unless they were evacuated before hand, American families of US soldiers would be included. The North Koreans have assembled a massive array of artillery along the border that could devastate Seoul in short order.

    A preemptive war on the Korean Peninsula would look nothing like the War in Iraq, as destructive as the latter turned out to be. It would be magnitudes worse in its devastation and its consequences.

    In its National Security Policy statement prior to the attack on Iraq, the Bush administration included a section on the potential need for preemptive war. In the Trump administration's document, released this week, no such assertion is made. That may have no meaning at all, however, given Trump's volatility and the discontinuities between policy statements of his staff and his tweets.

    Japan has stated that it will only support a defensive war resulting from a North Korean attack. The South Korean government has assured its people that the US has promised not to take military action without his approval. However, McMaster says there will be consultations--an entirely different position. Given Trump's unwillingness to listen to his own advisers, there is valid cause for concern.

    Schake leaves us with small comfort.

    Quote
    President Trump was derisive about the Bush administration’s mistakes in the Iraq war; it would be doubly tragic for him to repeat them. If the Trump administration isn’t re-examining their assumptions, they desperately need to be. They’re lurching arrogantly toward disaster.

    The North Korea Debate Sounds Eerily Familiar
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/12/north-korea-iraq-war-george-w-bush-trump/547796/
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #39 on: January 02, 2018, 11:03:32 AM »
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  • Kim suggested that North Korea might participate in the Winter Olympics in South Korea set to begin in a few weeks. The president of S. Korea, who has staked his political career on negotiating with the North,had the S. Korean Unification Minister propose a meeting for Jan. 9.

    Quote
    Unification Minister Cho Myoung-gyon proposed Tuesday holding high-level talks with North Korea, Jan. 9, to discuss its participation in the PyeongChang Winter Olympics.

    Cho's offer came in response to North Korean leader Kim Jong-un's New Year's message, in which he said he was willing to send a delegation of athletes to the South's first Winter Olympics.

    Minister Cho suggested holding the cross-border dialogue at the truce village of Panmunjeom. He said Seoul is open to discuss the timing, venues, methods and other preparatory steps regarding the talks with Pyongyang.

    "We propose to hold high-level talks on Jan. 9 at the Peace House (on the South Korean side of Panmunjeom)," Cho said during a press conference at the ministry in downtown Seoul. "We're willing to talk with the North freely over the necessary steps both sides must take. To do so, the dialogue channel at Panmunjeom should be restored promptly. We expect to hear a positive response from the North soon."

    If North Korea accepts, this will be the first cross-border dialogue since President Moon Jae-in took office in May 2017. It will also be the highest-level contact between the two Koreas since December 2015 when vice minister-level officials met.
    Seoul offers high-level talks with Pyongyang on Jan. 9
    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/01/103_241827.htm

    Foreign affairs observers are skeptical that Kim is offering an olive branch. Many see this as a way of driving a wedge between Washington and Seoul. President Moon is far more interested in negotiating with Kim than is the Trump administration. Talks between Kim and Moon would be seen as breaking the hardline position that nuclear weapons will not be accepted on the Korean Peninsula. At the same time they signal that N. Korea is not aiming to initiate a war.

    Kim has made it clear that he will never abandon his nuclear deterrent. By initiating discussions with the South he hopes to demonstrate that his weapons are defensive. At the same time he has succeed in undermining the US position that peaceful relations are not possible until Kim abandons his nuclear arsenal.
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Common Sense

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 12:55:07 PM »
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  • Wow. What are the odds that 1- that meeting comes to fruition and 2- the result of that meeting is international diplomacy?
    "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." - POTUS #32

    Blue Fish

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 01:40:25 PM »
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  • It all comes down to whether or not the NK tyrant can be trusted. Anyone here want to go on record as saying they do?

    It's a happy enchilada... (John Prine)

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #42 on: January 02, 2018, 07:45:04 PM »
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  • It all comes down to whether or not the NK tyrant can be trusted. Anyone here want to go on record as saying they do?



    Trust has never been part of the relationship with N. Korea. Although one could argue that Kim and his predecessors could be "trusted" to do whatever they believe is necessary to preserve the regime. Knowing what that is at a given time is the challenge and makes establishing a sound policy problematic.

    One view is that N. Korea can feel more secure from an American threat now that it is a nuclear power. That would make it possible to conduct a diplomatic arrangement with the US, S. Korea, and Japan with the participation of China and Russia that would recognize it as a member of the international community and lead to a negotiated end to the 1950's war since only an armistice exists. But, was there ever a valid American threat or are N. Korea's leaders simply paranoid?  If the US ever intended to destroy the N. Korean regime an attempt would have happened long before now, and if N. Korea were serious about wanting a peace treaty they could have made the effort to negotiate one. The fact that they have not pursued that objective suggests that their goal is the same as it was in 1950--to reunite the Korean Peninsula under the N. Korean regime. This view suggests that the nuclear program is designed to force the US to back off its alliance with S. Korea and let them do it.

    Operating on that assumption, current policy is to gin up the economic sanctions regime with cooperation at the UN, completely isolate N. Korea, demand that it renounce its nuclear weapons program, and conduct massive war games to intimidate Kim and his generals. That reinforces Kim's claim that he needs his nuclear shield to protect N. Korea from US designs to destroy him and unite the peninsula under S. Korean leadership. He is losing the argument with the rest of the world (with the possible exception of Russia), but preserving his nuclear option nevertheless. He will allow his people literally to eat grass or freeze to death before he will surrender his deterrent. That is where we stand. Sending N. Korean's to the Olympics or thawing relations with the South by conducting talks on Jan. 9 may ease current tensions, but the stalemate on the peninsula will remain.

    The current danger is a miscalculation on the part of the US or North Korea triggered, perhaps, by the downing of an aircraft or the sinking of a ship or the perception that the feared invasion is coming from one side or the other. Given the volatility of the two leaders, Trump and Kim, the fear of such a scenario has increased as each ups the ante in verbal insults.

    Fear, not trust, is the watchword that appears to be guiding everyone's policy at the moment. That China and Russia are joining the UN sanctions regime, even verbally, tells us they are operating on that principle too.
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 07:34:42 AM »
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  • This is getting F$&%@!+G ridiculous.

    We officially have nuclear war threats by the "man"/toddler in chief and its being done on Twitter.

    In verbal and digital combat of words with Kim Jong-un talking about his nuclear button the other day...Trump says he has his nuclear button ready and is "bigger, and larger" and "my button works".

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/948355557022420992

    Even those who are dyed in the wool Trumpite can't stand up and say this is the way to conduct business with nuclear war. This got real. Very real.
    "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." - POTUS #32

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #44 on: January 08, 2018, 06:54:55 PM »
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  • This is getting F$&%@!+G ridiculous.

    We officially have nuclear war threats by the "man"/toddler in chief and its being done on Twitter.

    In verbal and digital combat of words with Kim Jong-un talking about his nuclear button the other day...Trump says he has his nuclear button ready and is "bigger, and larger" and "my button works".

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/948355557022420992

    Even those who are dyed in the wool Trumpite can't stand up and say this is the way to conduct business with nuclear war. This got real. Very real.

    You are so on target to describe the dangers posed by the toddler in the White House and the toddler in Pyongyang.

    What raises my level of concern today is the calm, rational, thoughtful national security thinkers who have come up with this astonishing idea.

    Quote
    The United States is weighing the possibility of launching strikes on North Korea, the Wall Street Journal reports. The strikes, called a “bloody nose” option, would reportedly be a “limited” strike on a North Korean facility, in retaliation for future North Korean weapons tests. U.S. officials are reportedly uncertain if they could conduct the strikes without setting off all-out war. Strikes on North Korea come with the risk of massive consequences: the isolated country has an arsenal pointed at nearby Seoul, the capital city of U.S. ally South Korea. North and South Korea are also poised to enter diplomatic talks for the first time in two years, potentially paving the way for future deescalation between the two nations.

    Report: U.S. Weighing Possibility of ‘Limited’ North Korea Strikes
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-us-weighing-possibility-of-limited-north-korea-strikes

    Since the end of the Korean War, the US has refused to launch any kind of attack on North Korea. We have relied on deterrence to protect the South. Now that the North Koreans have nuclear weapons, have artillery deployed that will level Seoul in a heartbeat, and still have the Chinese determined to preserve the government of Kim jong-un, we are considering a "surgical strike" just to let them know we are not happy with their nuclear program, not to mention Kim's insults of our own man-child.

    These geniuses have at least paused to wonder "if they could conduct the strikes without setting off all-out war." While the DOD would be remiss if there wasn't a plan to wage war on the Korean Peninsula, the report sounds like this plan is active, on deck, and ready to fly.  Unless the Chinese, the South Koreans, the Japanese and the Russians are on board with this, it will be a catastrophe. Without any prior knowledge on the subject, I can say with full confidence that NONE of the aforementioned are OK with this.

    I have no words to describe how utterly insane this is.
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken