Author Topic: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real  (Read 1379 times)

Solon

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The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
« on: August 09, 2017, 02:26:57 AM »
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    With the report of the Defense Intelligence Agency that North Korea has miniaturized a nuclear weapon for emplacement in a long range missile, Trump responded with the bombast and irrationality of a Kim Jong-un. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen,” he said, leaving no doubt that he was threatening nuclear war if North Korea didn't stop making threats. Calling his bluff, the North Koreans let be known that they were considering a strike on Guam.

    The logic of the president's escalation of threats is difficult to fathom. Previously, Trump has gone on record that he thinks we should be willing to use nuclear weapons, so his words already demonstrate a gross misunderstanding of the dangers he courts. A preemptive strike on North Korea would result in a million casualties, mostly in Seoul, South Korea, given the massive artillery arsenal North Korea has assembled on the border, and a trillion dollar hit to the world economy. The catastrophe only expands from there. I am currently reading Destined for War by Graham Allison and an attack on North Korea is one of the scenarios that military experts believe could readily lead to war with China. North Korea has never been considered a rational player. By putting himself on the same level, Trump has called down on himself and the United States the condemnation of the world. 

    North Korea has cut through Trump's red lines like an ax through hot butter. Trump's credibility is already on life support. This is an astonishing display of incompetence. Never has  Trump's incapacity for the office of president been more evident.

    God help us all.

    North Korea says considering missile strike on Guam
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40871416
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Steven

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 07:31:02 AM »
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  • If Trump didn't say anything about North Korea you would him want him to be impeached for being weak.

    jonas_24112

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 11:29:32 AM »
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  • North Korea could be Trump's Grenada.....and don't think his team is not discussing it in those terms either.  Grenada created big political gains for Reagan if you don't remember.  And North Korea could do the same for Trump. There's nothing like a little bit of war and killing to make even the hardest liberal become an American Flag waving, beer swilling, pledge of allegiance reciting, scouts honor saluting, veteran honoring, rebel yell yelling, gun toting Nationalist!!   ;)

    Steven

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 12:40:00 PM »
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  • I agree something is going to happen and it won't be good for North Korea.

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 01:19:16 PM »
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  • Something already happened last weekend that wasn't good for North Korea. The UN Security Council unanimously voted to enforce crippling sanctions on the country. That is what triggered the latest round of threats from Kim and Trump. Kim threatened the US in particular over the new international restrictions, although its neighbor and sometimes ally, China, promised to rigorously enforce them. Trump, never to be outbullied, responded in kind. This is old hat with the North Korean government. Most people have learned to ignore it. Trump, who evidently feels as insecure as Kim Jong-un, responded in kind.

    As the Chinese foreign minister noted, the US usually allows sanctions to play out over time rather than reacting so quickly with hyperbolic language.

    Tillerson hastened to assure us that there is no immediate threat to the US. He should have added, except from the president's ignorance, insecurity and bombast.

    Tom Freidman says it best in today's commentary...
    Quote
    I was talking the other day to a wise executive friend and he recalled for me something his favorite boss liked to say: When people rise to the top of an organization and get power, they usually do one of two things: “They either swell or they grow.”

    Donald Trump has swollen.

    Every character flaw he had before taking office — from his serial lying to his intellectual laziness to his loyalty just to himself and his needs — has grown only larger and more toxic as he has been president. He seems not to have grown a whit in the job. He has surprised only on the downside...
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/opinion/donald-trump-gut-democrats.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
    « Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:31:24 PM by Solon »
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    Steven

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 04:46:37 PM »
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  • Who cares what Tom Freidman has to say - you might but I don't. And I don't care what Rush Limbaugh has to say either.

    Common Sense

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 05:51:22 PM »
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  • I would like the President to GET OFF HIS PHONE AND STOP TWEETING FOREIGN POLICY AND MILITARY ACTIONS TO THE ENTIRE WORLD.

    Chief of Staff John Kelly needs to step up and take his damn phone away. He's like a junior high school girl who doesn't do her homework and tweets selfies all night.
    "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." - POTUS #32

    superman

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 07:46:10 PM »
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  • The threat North Korea now poses with the capability of putting a nuclear warhead inside an ICBM and the ability to get that to U.S. territory is a result of appeasement by the Clinton and Obama regimes. None of those deals worked. It only bought the North Korean military time to develop their nuclear capabilities and now President Trump has to deal with the direct threat Kim Jon Un poses to this country and our allies. Left wing appeasement has proven not to work.

    Trump and Mattis will put the safety of this country first. If China does not want war on their doorstep they need to step up and intervene in North Korea. They have been warned.

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #8 on: August 10, 2017, 01:35:13 AM »
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  • According to this historian of Korea, the Reagan invasion of Grenada, which seems like a minor side show compared to other US interventions, was the trigger for North Korea's nuclear program. Kim Jong-un is following the program laid down by his grandfather. The North Koreans have believed from that time that the US was capable of invading and destroying the regime and that only the acquisition of a nuclear deterrent could save them.

    Quote
    Few Americans will recall the 1983 invasion of a small Caribbean nation thousands of miles from North Korea. But in fact, this conflict set the stage for the nuclear standoff today. It intensified the animosity between the two countries, sending North Korea on a quest for nuclear weapons to combat what it saw as a looming American threat.

    In October 1983, the United States invaded Grenada. The Kim family regime that controls North Korea saw this invasion as an early warning sign: If the United States could perceive even a small spice island as a threat, so too could it eventually train its sights on North Korea. Without an effective deterrent, any regime perceived as a threat would be little match for American military might.

    The Reagan-era invasion that drove North Korea to develop nuclear weapons
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/09/the-reagan-era-invasion-that-drove-north-korea-to-develop-nuclear-weapons/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-posteverything%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.8df59fe22f0c
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    superman

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #9 on: August 10, 2017, 06:28:08 AM »
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  • So says Solon and the Bezos Post. If it were up to the left wingers in this country we would sit and wait for North Korea to drop a nuclear warhead on this country and then think about a military response.

    Steven

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 07:27:50 AM »
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  • Your history lesson is based on North Korea's opinion. In your quote above you failed to mention all the weapons NK gave to Grenada. Maybe we need Obama to draw another line in the sand. When someone openly threatens the lives of millions of people and has the weapons to do it - thanks to Obama - you can't ignore it. So what is your answer Solon? Do they all need jobs? Should we allow North Korea to walk across our borders and give them free housing and free healthcare and free college? Let me ask you this - if a thief breaks into your house in the middle of the night -would you politely ask them to stop or would you call the police?

    jonas_24112

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 09:59:09 AM »
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  • A good read:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/timeline-of-the-north-korean-nuclear-threat-w496701

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    China is only willing to try so hard. Although the Chinese are often dissatisfied with their troublesome ally, they are not eager to see North Korea badly destabilized. If North Korea collapses because of outside pressures, the most likely result is that it would merge with South Korea, much as East Germany merged with West Germany after the Berlin Wall came tumbling down in 1989. This would put a pro-American Korea right on the Chinese border: not a result the Chinese government is eager to bring about.

    Steven

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #12 on: August 10, 2017, 12:10:23 PM »
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  • It might be time to call in Dennis Rodman

    Solon

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #13 on: August 10, 2017, 02:51:38 PM »
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  • A good read:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/timeline-of-the-north-korean-nuclear-threat-w496701

    Quote
    China is only willing to try so hard. Although the Chinese are often dissatisfied with their troublesome ally, they are not eager to see North Korea badly destabilized. If North Korea collapses because of outside pressures, the most likely result is that it would merge with South Korea, much as East Germany merged with West Germany after the Berlin Wall came tumbling down in 1989. This would put a pro-American Korea right on the Chinese border: not a result the Chinese government is eager to bring about.

    ...and a real contribution to the discussion. Unless we understand the views of other nations, including our opponents, how can we possibly devise a wise policy?

    Kim Jong-un had his apolitical brother brutally assassinated in public, in an airport, to send a message. Some have thought it was to the Chinese. Were they conspiring to put a more cooperative Kim in power? There is no evidence, only speculation. Clearly, the "Great Leader" has fears for his position. Secretary of State Tillerson tried to assuage the dictator's concerns last week when he assured North Korea that the United States was not its enemy and the US did not seek regime change. That was as conciliatory as the US has ever been in public, but Trump walked all over that effort to move Kim to the negotiating table with his "fire and fury" comments.

    We have three choices:  war, negotiations, acquiescence. Since WWII, we have engaged in all three. If you regard sanctions as a form of low grade war designed to push a nation to negotiate, you could argue that this has been the most consistent modus operandi. But, let's face it: such a policy involves a certain level of acquiescence. Clinton negotiated a deal which George Bush broke off because the North Koreans were cheating. His administration tried to restart negotiations after North Korea made gains in creating bomb grade uranium, but the North Koreans weren't interested. Obama followed the pattern of sanctions for negotiations while pushing the Chinese to help. Trump has done the same with wildly mixed messages. All along the UN has passed sanction after sanction to no avail. The Chinese and Russians have opposed really biting sanctions until last week. Even they are finally frightened. The sanctions passed last Sunday are really tough and, if implemented over a long period will have terrible consequences for the North Korean economy.  Maybe they will have the desired result; maybe they are too late. Still, they represent the best opportunity to get North Korea to stand down. Threats and insults won't get the job done.   
    On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
    ...H. L. Mencken

    cubsfanbudman

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    Re: The Threat of Nuclear War Is Real
    « Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 06:45:10 PM »
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  • i dont think trump needs to sell a lot of wolf tickets to this crazy bastard,i think he is the most unstable
    world leader we have had since stalin,worse than khadafi,hussein,and khomehini combined.he is just mentally unstable enough to push that nuke button. i gurantee the us has a plan to shoot the missles down far away to impact anybody.
    "the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
    albert einstein