Author Topic: "Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”  (Read 6553 times)

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« on: February 28, 2017, 02:03:54 PM »
I have spent the last year pointing out how ignorant Donald Trump is...among other issues. Yet, every time he proves me correct, I am astonished. How can anyone not know how complicated health care in the US actually is. I assume his wealth has insulated him from having to deal with the issues that most Americans deal with and his illiteracy has restrained his reading on the subject, but even TV has provided enough discussion that he ought to have a clue. But, no, the man is a lost cause to understanding the complexity of virtually any subjects save hotel and golf course decor, construction, and finance. If you haven't figured out that Trump has no clue about how to govern the United States, this quote alone should grab you by the throat and force you to open your bleary eyes to see the light.  

Quote
“I have to tell you, it’s an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”


Trump Concedes Health Law Overhaul Is ‘Unbelievably Complex’
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/27/us/politics/trump-concedes-health-law-overhaul-is-unbelievably-complex.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2017, 10:34:05 AM »
If you voted for Trump I am quite certain you knew he wasn't serious about replacing Obamacare with health insurance for everyone that has better coverage and lower prices. You were only interested in the thrill of screaming "Lock her up" and making fun of disabled people. Maybe you just liked the idea of grabbing...well, never mind. Still, he did make a promise and he is keeping his promises, right? He is intent on building a $21 billion dollar wall, but something has to give and how important is health insurance for people who would have to work ten years to earn enough money to join Mar-A-Lago. We are told that you knew this, that Trump was your man come to blow up Washington, to get things done. Congrats, the polluters are free to dump lots of crap in your water with fewer inspections, gas mileage is going down (you do like to spend your money on gasoline, right?), the finance guys won't have to work in your interest under penalty of law. They can take your money and speculate for their own profit whether you get hurt or not. You don't care about those things, right? You just want to wear that Make America Great Again hat. You know, the one made in China. You may not be able to afford a Trump steak (That's really a thing, isn't it?), but you can wear that hat.

Well, enough of that. Let's deal with the good news.

Millions Risk Losing Health Insurance in Republican Plan, Analysts Say  
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/health/risk-of-losing-health-insurance-in-republican-plan.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=origin®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Home%20Page&pgtype=article

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Millions of people who get private health coverage through the Affordable Care Act would be at risk of losing it under the replacement legislation proposed by House Republicans, analysts said Tuesday, with Americans in their 50s and 60s especially likely to find coverage unaffordable.

Starting in 2020, the plan would do away with the current system of providing premium subsidies based on people’s income and the cost of insurance where they live. Instead, it would provide tax credits of $2,000 to $4,000 per year based on their age.

But the credits would not cover nearly as much of the cost of premiums as the current subsidies do, at least for the type of comprehensive coverage that the Affordable Care Act requires, analysts said. For many people, that could mean the difference between keeping coverage under the new system and having to give it up.

...The Congressional Budget Office has yet to release its official estimates of how many people would lose coverage under the proposal, but a report from Standard & Poor’s estimated that two million to four million people would drop out of the individual insurance market, largely because people in their 50s and early 60s — those too young to qualify for Medicare — would face higher costs. Other analysts, including those at the left-leaning Brookings Institution, have estimated larger coverage losses.

...Other people likely to be hurt under the new plan are those in areas where the cost of coverage is high. Subsidies are now pegged to the cost of a plan within a specific market, but the tax credits in the Republican plan are the same whether you live in Alaska or Minnesota. Coverage tends to be most expensive in parts of the country where there are few hospitals or few insurers. “When it comes to health insurance, high-cost areas tend to be rural areas,”

... Analysts say the lack of out-of-pocket assistance is likely to make any plan much less attractive to low-income people.

...Dr. Molina, the Molina Healthcare chief executive, said insurers are likely to increase their premiums significantly because they will worry about enrolling more high-cost patients as healthier people opt to go without coverage.

“Insurance companies are going to jack up the rates,” predicted Dr. Molina, who said premiums might increase even more than they did last year when some companies raised the rates by 25 percent or more.


Of course, this article is just the beginning of a cascade of stories that tell the sad tale. Many, I expect, will be very similar to this one...
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Ms. Brawley in Monroe, N.C., said she and her husband could barely afford their current premiums, and her deductible of $3,500 a year is far too high. Still, she added, “it’s better than owing $20,000 or $30,000.”

“This is my second year with the Obama insurance,” she continued, “but before then, I didn’t have any and didn’t go to the doctor.”

She and her husband voted for Mr. Trump — the first time she had voted in her life — she said, because “I thought he would make it better.”


Yes, there really was one or two people out there who actually did believe Trump when he promised better, cheaper health insurance. This is where I would normally make some snide remark about Trump voters, but not today. I know some of these people and they are going to suffer for their vote. That's a betrayal that inspires anger, not ridicule.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 03:14:24 PM by Solon »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2017, 10:58:45 AM »
Don't you just love those guys who have Congressional health care paid for by mine and your tax dollars who look down their noses at people who can't afford it?

Chaffetz: Americans May Have To Choose Between New Phone, Health Insurance

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/chaffetz-choice-phone-health-insurance

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Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) on Tuesday morning brushed off concerns about the access low-income Americans will have to health insurance with Republicans' plan to replace Obamacare, arguing that Americans will just have to choose between a new phone and health insurance.

"Americans have choices. And they've got to make a choice. And so maybe rather than getting that new iPhone that they just love and they want to go spend hundreds of dollars on that, maybe they should invest in their own health care. They've got to make those decisions themselves," Chaffetz said on CNN's "New Day" when pressed on insurance for low-income Americans under the latest draft legislation to replace the Affordable Care Act.

I wouldn't call this guy stupid (...even if he did spend millions of dollars on Benghazi investigation number 7), but an average policy on the health exchanges costs around $3,500 in most states and an iPhone costs around $700. Whatever...he's an important man, he's Jason Chaffetz. He's a Repubican, he can make up his own facts.
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2017, 03:40:19 PM »
More good news:

The new GOP plan to gut the Affordable Care Act will give massive tax breaks to the wealthy at the expense of the poor, elderly and sick. It does this by raiding $346 billion from the Medicare trust fund that was included in the ACA, and in turn intentionally weakens Medicare’s finances.

The subsidies provided to low wage workers who bought insurance in the exchanges were provided from a tax on the wealthiest tax payers. By repealing this provision of the ACA, the rich will receive another tax windfall. The Freedom (LOL) Caucus is outraged that the reduced subsidies included in the revised bill will add to the deficit. They want to forget about replace and just repeal Obamacare (the ACA). They are thrilled to provide the 30+  million who will lose coverage the blessings of freedom to go bankrupt or die for lack of health insurance.

Moderate Republicans are angry that the Medicaid expansion feature of the ACA is set to end in 2020, when the full extent of the repeal and "replace" will actually take place. Can you believe it, a few Republican governor actually care enough about the health of their citizens to spend money on insurance for them. Of course, they have no clout with the likes of Ayn Rand..er...Rand Paul...er...Paul Ryan.
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 12:54:02 PM »
House Republicans are going to fall into line and vote for Trumpcare--the short-fingered vulgarian to Obamacare. It is the Senate that will prove to be a tough sell. The leadership wants to send Trump out for one of his famous rallies to intimidate the reluctant. I wonder if all of his supporters who are losing their health insurance will be so joyous. Maybe they will decide to shout "Liar, Liar." instead of "Lock her up." Wouldn't that be a hoot. Ryan would like to get it passed before the Congressional Budget Office completes its review. Because the taxes that pay for Obamacare are being cut, the funds required to pay for reduced subsidies will add to the deficit. Basically it's tax cuts for the rich now with the remaining cost burden shifted to the next generation. Isn't that what Republicans have been doing since Reagan? Same old, Same old.

Meanwhile, every healthcare provider of any consequence has denounced the bill for taking health insurance away from millions and raising the cost to people who can't afford it. It's the healthcare Grinch on steroids. Even so the Freedom (LOL) Caucus leaders want to leave the 20-30 million people who got coverage under Obamacare with nothing. They want the rich people paying for the subsidies (those earning over $250,000 per year) to have the cash to buy another yacht, but not one penny for the working poor to have health insurance.

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In a letter to lawmakers, major hospital groups wrote, “As organizations that take care of every individual who walks through our doors, both due to our mission and our obligations under federal law, we are committed to ensuring health care coverage is available and affordable for all.”

The groups, including the American Hospital Association, the Association of American Medical Colleges, the Catholic Health Association of the United States and the Children’s Hospital Association, said they could not support the bill “as currently written.”

The hospitals and the American Nurses Association joined the American Medical Association and AARP, which rejected the bill on Tuesday.

Health Bill Clears House Panel in Pre-Dawn Hours
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/us/politics/health-bill-clears-house-panel-in-pre-dawn-hours.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 03:29:29 PM »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 12:03:48 AM »
We are beginning to count up the number of people who will lose their insurance. Rumors say the CBO is estimating 15 million. We will see. Today we know this for a fact.

House Republicans confirmed Wednesday that their health care bill would remove a requirement to offer substance abuse and mental health coverage that’s currently used by at least 1.3 million Americans.
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

superman

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 06:27:24 AM »
Seeing that the first draft of the bill just arrived in 2 House committees just two days ago it will be interesting to see what the finished product will look like. As a conservative, I am not happy seeing tax credits in the first draft as I see this as just a replacement for subsidies that is part of Obamacare. It is just another way of saying government entitlement.

On the other hand, Obamacare is crashing. One of every three counties only have one insurance option if you have Obamacare, insurance companies are leaving Obamacare in droves and premiums and co-pays are spiking in costs.

When the Democrats wrote Obamacare it was not done in committee, it was done in the offices of Reid and Pelosi. Ryan has this process starting in the House committees using the markup process. The draft bill is only 122 pages long, as opposed to the more than 2,000 pages of the failed Obamacare.

we are at the beginning of the legislative process so lets proceed and see how the Republicans work out the final product.

jonas_24112

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 09:49:20 AM »
Even a conservative (center-right) guy like me knows that socialized medicine is the only answer to this mess. As much as I hate the idea of socialism, it would be no different than Medicaire or Social Security at this point.

Did you know that 50% of births in this country are paid for by Medicare?  I just heard this statistic this morning and was absolutely shocked.

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2017, 11:56:51 AM »
Universal, single-payer health care was called socialized medicine in the US as a pejorative to kill it. However, Truman failed when most of the rest of the Western democracies succeeded because Southern Democrats feared that hospitals would be racially integrated if we instituted such a system. The moment, immediately after WWII, when most Americans were willing to sacrifice a little bit for each other has long since passed and we are stuck with a mishmash of systems from the completely socialistic Veterans Administration, to the partially socialistic Medicare, to the completely free market system for those who are self-employed or have no insurance at work. The latter group plus the working poor included many people who didn't have health insurance and couldn't afford it. Along with young people who frequently lack health insurance, they were the groups targeted by the Affordable Care Act.

Trumpcare doesn't change the fundamental rationale for Obamacare, it eliminates the taxes that pay for it (targeted to those making over $250,000 per year) and vastly reduces the subsidies for people who need help, both in the exchanges and on Medicaid.

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Obamacare rests on three main pillars. Insurance companies are regulated, prevented from denying coverage or charging higher prices to Americans with pre-existing conditions. Families receive subsidies linked to both income and premiums, to help them buy insurance. And there is a penalty for those who don’t buy insurance, to induce people to sign up even if they’re currently healthy.

Trumpcare ... preserves some version of all three elements, but in drastically, probably fatally weakened form.

Insurers are still barred from excluding the sick, but they’re allowed to charge older Americans — who need insurance the most — much higher premiums.

Subsidies are still there, in the form of tax credits, but they’re no longer linked to either income (as long as it’s below $75,000) or the cost of insurance.

And the tax on those who don’t sign up becomes a small surcharge — paid to insurance companies, not the public — on people who sign up after previously letting coverage lapse.

...Affluent young people might end up saving some money as a result of these changes. But the effect on those who are older and less affluent would be devastating. AARP has done the math: a 55-year-old making $25,000 a year would end up paying $3,600 a year more for coverage; that rises to $8,400 for a 64-year-old making $15,000 a year. And that’s before the death spiral.

   
A Bill So Bad It’s Awesome
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/opinion/a-bill-so-bad-its-awesome.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=opinion&module=Ribbon&version=context®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article

Thomas Massie, a decent and courageous Republican from Kentucky was asked on Fox whether he would recant his criticisms of his own party's health plan, he smartly replied, “No, it's a stinking pile of garbage.”

Spicer has already begun an attack on the Congressional Budget Office because the White House knows it will provide an honest, objective analysis that will crucify Trumpcare.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 12:03:15 PM by Solon »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2017, 12:21:24 PM »
The attitude of most Republicans in Congress was summed up by one of its members:

Quote
“Just like Jesus said, ‘The poor will always be with us,’ ” Marshall said in response to a question about Medicaid, which expanded under Obamacare to more than 30 states. “There is a group of people that just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.”

He added that “morally, spiritually, socially,” the poor, including the homeless, “just don’t want health care.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/03/09/the-poor-just-dont-want-health-care-republican-congressman-faces-backlash-over-comments/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pwp-kansas-540pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.09fe76168634

This is a doctor speaking who was elected to Congress this year. Despite his profound ignorance about many of the people who have Obamacare (despite the subsidies it is still a financial burden for many of them), I think he doesn't get is that these people want a better life for their children and the benefits of healthcare will show in each succeeding generation. But, hey, let's cut taxes on the rich who need the money to buy a new yacht now.
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2017, 11:44:52 PM »
Paul Ryan Excited To Kick People Off Medicaid

When Trump announced his candidacy he promised no cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid. While we don't know if he betrayed the American people intentionally in his dealings with Russia, we know uequivocally that he has betrayed people on Medicare and Medicaid. I previously cited the $346 billion Trumpcare is cutting from Medicare, but we don't have a number on Medicaid yet. What we do have is Paul Ryan's exultant promise that Republicans are about to virtually destroy it.

This shows just how meaningless Trump's promises are.

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In an interview with conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt on Friday, Ryan (R-Wis.) compared his legislation repealing the Affordable Care Act to the vaunted 1996 welfare reform law, which basically ended the federal government’s commitment to cash assistance for parents in poverty.

“This is so much bigger, by orders of magnitude, than welfare reform,” Ryan said.

Obama’s Affordable Care Act made more people eligible for Medicaid, which currently provides health insurance for nearly 70 million Americans. The Republican health care bill would roll back Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion and also dramatically reform the way Medicaid works.

States currently administer Medicaid with a commitment from the federal government, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars per year, to help pay for as many enrollees as might be eligible due to low income. The Republicans’ American Health Care Act would limit that open-ended commitment by capping federal funding for states based on the number of enrollees rather than the cost of their medical claims.

As Ryan put it on Friday, “We are de-federalizing an entitlement, block granting it back to the states, and capping its growth rate. That’s never been done before.”

Indeed, the legislation’s per capita funding caps have never been tried in a public benefit program, according to the Center for Law and Social Policy, a liberal think tank that generally opposes cutting antipoverty funds. Conservative policy wonks have argued that Medicaid’s funding formula doesn’t improve poor people’s health in part because of low compensation rates for doctors.

But Congress has done “block granting” before, just not on such a large scale. In 1996, amid a national debate over welfare fraud and the alleged pathologies of poor people, Congress overhauled the federal Aid to Families with Dependent Children program, which since the 1930s had offered monthly cash benefits to single mothers and families in poverty. Congress renamed the program the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and capped its funding as a $16 billion “block grant” to states. Ryan was a congressional staffer at the time.

“Welfare reform is a $16 billion program,” Ryan said Friday. “We’re talking about trillions in the end here in this program.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-medicaid_us_58c2fce1e4b054a0ea6a8da2

Are Americans this stupid and selfish? The health of the nation affects a society's achievements from educational accomplishment to economic productivity. It is not a frivolous extra, it is a basic condition upon which each succeeding generation must build. The prediction that the US will have the lowest life expectancy rates in the industrialized world by 2030 (http://forum.whee.net/showthread.php?326-US-to-have-the-lowest-life-expectancy-of-rich-countries-by-2030) tells us that we are not on a desirable trajectory now. Imagine how much less healthy future generations will be if we implement Trumpcare.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 12:33:08 AM by Solon »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

Solon

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2017, 12:50:15 AM »
We have some estimates on how much the tax cuts will benefit the rich and how much is coming out of the Affordable Care Act. The fact is indisputable that health insurance rates will dramatically rise for anyone trying to purchase insurance who currently is eligible for Obamacare by the time Trumpcare is fully implemented in 2020. There may well be more people who lack health insurance by 2021 than in 2008. Trumpcare, thanks to the Republican party, will intentionally reduce the health of the American people.

Wealthy Would Get Billions in Tax Cuts Under Obamacare Repeal Plan

Quote
Two of the biggest tax cuts in Republican proposals to repeal the Affordable Care Act would deliver roughly $157 billion over the coming decade to those with incomes of $1 million or more, according to a congressional analysis.

...It is not unusual for tax cuts to benefit mostly the wealthiest, but still save some money for a majority of Americans. But the benefits of these reductions would be aimed squarely at the top.

The provisions would repeal two tax increases on high earners enacted in 2010 to help pay for the Affordable Care Act: an increase in capital gains taxes and other investment-related income, and a surcharge on Medicare taxes.

People making $200,000 to $999,999 a year would also get sizable tax cuts. In total, the two provisions would cut taxes by about $274 billion during the coming decade, virtually all of it for people making at least $200,000, according to a separate assessment by the committee.

...One of the taxes targeted in the repeal bill is a 3.8 percent tax on investment income, like capital gains. The other is a 0.9 percent surcharge on the Medicare taxes imposed on high-income earners — individuals making more than $200,000 a year and married couples filing joint returns who earn more than $250,000 a year.

...The analysis found that by 2020, the repeal of the two tax provisions would save about $15.9 billion a year for those with incomes of $1 million or more. By 2026, the final year of the analysis, they would combine to save that group a little more than $20 billion a year.

For all the taxpayers who would benefit, the tax cuts would save nearly $37 billion in a single year by 2026.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/business/tax-cuts-affordable-care-act-repeal.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

On Monday we will hear from the Congressional Budget Office on how much Republicans will add to the deficit because of  these tax cuts for the rich. A more critical issue is how the health of Americans will be undermined by this tax cutting agenda.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 12:52:41 AM by Solon »
On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and a complete narcissistic moron.
...H. L. Mencken

superman

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2017, 09:40:12 AM »
Of course Republicans could end up doing nothing and simply watch Obamacare continue its death spiral and ultimate collapse. Then Americans would see the true result of what Obama and democrats passed. At that time Republicans could jump in and attempt something.

As long as government entitlements are involved I am against Republicans doing anything to Obamacare right now. Let Obamacare die the death it has coming and let that be a lesson the U.S. Government has no business in mandating healthcare insurance.

cubsfanbudman

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"Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.”
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2017, 02:58:47 PM »
look at what politics did to martinsville and henry county.i got no problem with people here who get government benefits especially since it was the government that signed the agreement that killed this area.it makes me sick that people who grew up ere and say they care about this area,belittle and talk badly about it every chance they get.remember,that little white speck at the top of chicken crap is chicken crap too.
"the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it\'s limits"
albert einstein